R-45 Frustrated Muslins respond to growing prejudice against them....

Second Muslim cleric joins row in Australia over women and rape SYDNEY (AFP) - A second Muslim cleric in Australia has stepped into a bitter dispute over attitudes to women and rape, charging that anti-Islamic bias ensured Muslim rapists got tougher sentences than other men..... Sheik Mohammed Omran publicly defended a sermon in which he said Muslims were dealt with more harshly than other sex offenders such as "bikies" belonging to motorcycle gangs or "football stars".

Both clerics referred in their sermons to heavy sentences meted out to a group of young Muslim men for a series of notorious gang rapes in Sydney six years ago..... One of the men received a 55-year jail sentence, which was later reduced on appeal...."What I said in the sermon, I say it here and I'll say it wherever I am," Omran said......

"We are part of the Australian society and, as an Australian -- forget what I am, a cleric or not a cleric, I am an Australian -- I have a view and I am free to tell the people about my view."....

Omran charged that judges lacked consistency in sentencing, saying that otherwise similar sentences should be passed on "the priest who rape(s) a child under his care, or the teacher who (has) a sexual relation with his student"..... He also accused the media and the government of overreacting to crimes committed by Muslims. Prime Minister John Howard has led the storm of criticism of the mufti's remarks about "uncovered meat".

************************ says a me comment ***********************

Similar to how aboriginals have been and still are discriminated against..... Muslims, world wide, are now being targeted with prejudice and discrimination... US - Bush did a lot to lay the finger of blame and supsicion of 911 on Muslims... and no matter what they now say or do, if they do anything wrong or complain in any way.. they are the problem and need to be taught a lesson... That's Christians for you... and any other religion for that matter... "do as I say.. don't do as I do".. but that's not the GOLDEN RULE they tell you they believe...

Saysame JR

R-44 Evangelical Pentecoastal Church in Ukraine... uses loud music and pom pom dancers..

Nigerian pastor finds new flock in Ukraine Inside one of Ukraine's biggest sports halls a band pumps out deafening music surrounded by pom pom-waving dancers in shiny blue outfits...... Thousands of people are on their feet enthusiastically singing and clapping along, as if at a pop concert...... A Pentecostal church called the Embassy of God is sweeping across the country...... It claims to have 25,000 members in the capital alone.... For many people here a church service that has a feel-good factor is something new.

Some critics are suspicious of this evangelical movement and its close relationship with powerful politicians...... The Orthodox Church feels threatened. It says Embassy of God is a cult...... "The followers become like zombies - they are fully devoted to the leader of the organisation, ready to fulfil any of his desires," says Father Superior Yevstratiy Zorya, spokesman for the Orthodox Church in Kiev..... "It also has an impact on political life, because these people help to campaign for the politicians loyal to their church."

The Embassy of God says there is no brainwashing. Instead it targets people who feel rejected by society...... It runs a homeless shelter in the capital which helps prostitutes, drug addicts and members of the mafia like Alexander Skrypin.

R-43 Pope in denial... plays dumb to past... now urges "action" on sexual abuse....

Pope urges action on sexual abuse

The Catholic Church must take all necessary steps to prevent further occurrences of child sex abuse by clergy, Pope Benedict has said.... To do this, the church had to find out what had happened in the past, he said....Pope Benedict said that abuse scandals had created deep wounds in the church.

"It is important to establish the truth of what happened in the past, to take whatever steps are necessary to prevent it from occurring again," he said, according to a copy of the speech released by the Vatican.... "Above all, (it is important) to bring healing to the victims and to all those affected by these egregious crimes."

R-42 US Evangelicals bring aid to suffering war torn Israel

U.S. evangelicals on mission in Israel

ASHDOD, Israel - After 35 days at sea, a group of American evangelicals traveling on a creaky World War II-era cargo ship landed in Israel on a solidarity mission only to run aground in red tape, with long delays in unloading their cargo of clothes, toys and medical supplies.

Still, the crew was unfazed Thursday, keeping a positive attitude in a demonstration of the growing alliance between evangelical Christians and the Jewish state...... "The Bible says, 'Who blesses Israel will be blessed,'" said Don Tipton, the group's leader. "We believe that."

But the mission to Israel is different.

"This is not aid, it's an expression of friendship and love," Don Tipton said. The members of his crew, like many other evangelical Christians, see supporting Israel as a divine commandment. They were further spurred by this summer's war against Hezbollah militants in Lebanon, he said.....

"After the war, we saw that Lebanon was getting lots of aid and friendship, and I thought, hey, they're not the ones who just got mugged," Tipton said. He then sped up preparations for the trip, which had been planned before fighting broke out.

The voyage reflects the growing support among American evangelicals for the Jewish state, with Christians becoming more vocal politically and more generous financially on Israel's behalf.

R-41 Muslim clerics sexist comment not different than Western Societies attitude...

Australian Muslim cleric apologises for remarks on women

SYDNEY (AFP) - Australia's most senior Islamic cleric has issued an apology after triggering outrage for describing scantily-clad women without headscarves as "uncovered meat" inviting sexual attack.

The comments were condemned Thursday by other Muslim leaders and Prime Minister John Howard, while the government's sex discrimination commissioner said he should be deported..... "I unreservedly apologise to any woman who is offended by my comments," the cleric, Sheikh Taj Aldin al-Hilali said in a statement, after a backlash from politicians, community leaders and the Muslim community..... "I had only intended to protect women's honour, something lost in The Australian presentation of my talk," he said.

The senior Islamic cleric had commented...... "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?" he asked...... "The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

Howard said the comments were "appalling and reprehensible," adding: "The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous."..... "It is incitement to a crime. Young Muslim men who now rape women can cite this in court, can quote this man, their leader in court," she told Australian television...... "It's time we stopped just saying he should apologise. It is time the Islamic community did more then say they were horrified. I think it's time he was asked to go."

************************** says a me comment **********************

I'm sure that this comment by the Muslim cleric was triggered by the The British comments on Muslim women and their veils. Again... a conflict and different opinions over customs, traditions and religious moral views.

While this is a sexist comment, it is also a religious and racial slur.. BUT... that is only part of the picture and problem... Howard and the so-called western society was quick to point a finger at the Muslins sexist comment... but.. what he failed to notice was that western society does nothing to protect women that are abused or raped... And that if a woman is abused or raped... then she must have deserved it or had invited it.... That's no different than what the Cleric was saying...

Now I'm not saying that some women don't use their body and sex to entice and manipulate men... as a form of control and power to get what they want... There are issues on all sides that need to be addressed.... including those of the so-called victim...

Saysame JR

UPDATES:
'06 Oct 26 India tackles domestic violence

It's interesting to see a twist and turn of events here... and how these same so-called good and righteous Christians never denounced the Pope when he called Muslims evil and inhuman... yet now they are outraged by a Muslim cleric calling women that reveal skin... uncovered meat... It's part of the old "Golden Rule" again and the good old "knight in shinning amour syndrome".. that now reveals himself to protect the "honor" of women, that they themselves at times, treat as meat... BUT.. this takes the focus off of their unloving actions and places it on someone that is DIFFERENT but SIMILAR...



True colours - Shit hits fan

Australia fury at cleric comments

Australian mufti's sermons suspended amid firestorm over women comments

Australian Muslim cleric apologizes for remarks on women

UPDATE: '06 Oct 30 Under-fire Australian Muslim cleric collapses, takes leave

'06 Nov 03 Australia's cleric preaches despite vow

R-40 Christianity... coming apart at the seams...

Anglican bishop warns gay clergy issue could marginalise leader

SYDNEY (AFP) - An Australian Anglican archbishop has warned that tolerance of gay clergy will marginalise the position of the Archbishop of Canterbury and devolve the global church from its traditional powerbase..... The leader of the largest Anglican diocese in Australia, Sydney Archbishop Peter Jensen, played down the possibility of the church's disintegration, but cautioned that the ordination of gay clergy could undermine the status and influence of the global church's top figure.....

Making clear his total opposition to gay and female clergy, Jensen told a church synod late Monday that at least two overseas churches had applied to join Sydney's conservative Anglican diocese..... "I do not talk of a split, for example. Nor have I been one to talk of schism and the break-up of the Anglican communion," Jensen said.

*************************says a me comment *****************************

Why is Christianity so fragmented? Could it be that the beliefs on which it was founded are also flawed? A religious split is only a form change whereby they deny what they can't accept... So another religious domination built on the sand of denial...

Saysame JR

R-39 Religion - Politics - In god we Trust... Ahhhhhhh..... Change that.. In OUR God we Trust...

Conservatism doesn't need God

That was the nearly universal advice to Democratic politicians after the publicly pious George W. Bush vanquished the more religiously reticent John Kerry in the 2004 presidential election. The largest plurality of voters - 22% - had told exit pollsters that "moral values" (left undefined in the poll) were their most salient concern. Add to this enigmatic survey finding the fact that 11 states passed amendments banning gay marriage, and the result, according to gleeful Republican pundits and not a few Democratic consultants, was the exposure of a Democratic God gap....... Ever since then, Democrats have been trying to show that they, too, have God in their hearts and in their caucus rooms.

What does faith reveal?

What are we supposed to learn when a candidate talks about his faith: That he is a good person? The rich history of religious bounders and charlatans should give the lie to that hope. Nor has a sincere belief in God prevented behavior we now view as morally repugnant. There were few more religious Americans than antebellum slaveholders and their political representatives; their claim to a divine mandate for slavery was based in unimpeachable Scriptural authority.

Or perhaps a politician's discussion of his prayer habits should reassure the public he'll make the right decisions in office. But what if opposing candidates declare themselves supplicants of the divine will - how will a voter decide who is most likely to receive divine guidance?

R-38 Masons - No so Brotherly Loving.. as they profess...

Masons struggle with racial separation
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. - The Masons, the storied fraternal order whose members have included Mozart, George Washington and John Wayne, has become entwined across the Deep South with the remnants of another tradition in these parts: strict segregation....... Nationwide, Masonic groups operate in a separate-but-supposedly-equal system in which whites typically join one network of Masonic groups, called Grand Lodges, and blacks typically join another, called Prince Hall.

But in the South, it goes further: White-controlled Grand Lodges in 12 Southern states do not even officially recognize black Masons as their brothers — the Masonic term is "mutual recognition" — and in some cases, black lodges have taken similar stands.

R-37 US criticizes the role of Islam in politics.. but fail to see the role of Christianity

'06 Oct 21 Schroeder: Bush's faith raised suspicion BERLIN - Ex-Chancellor
Gerhard Schroeder, whose second term was marked by vehement opposition to the war in
Iraq, described in an advance copy of his memoirs how he was suspicious of
President Bush's constant references to his Christian faith.....

While meetings with Bush at that time were friendly, Schroeder said he could not reconcile himself with the feeling that religion was the driving force behind many of Bush's political decisions....... "What bothered me, and in a certain way made me suspicious despite the relaxed atmosphere, was again and again in our discussions how much this president described himself as 'God-fearing,'" Schroeder wrote, adding he is a firm believer in the separation of church and state....... Schroeder accused some elements in U.S. as being hypocritical when it comes to secularism in government.

"We rightly criticize that in most Islamic states, the role of religion for society and the character of the rule of law are not clearly separated," Schroeder wrote. "But we fail to recognize that in the USA, the Christian fundamentalists and their interpretation of the Bible have similar tendencies."

R-36 Politics, sex, coruption and now RELIGION....

'06 Oct 19 Newspaper: Priest admits ties to Foley
ROME - A priest acknowledged Thursday that he was naked in saunas and went skinny-dipping with Mark Foley decades ago when the former congressman was a boy in Florida, but denied that the two had sex....."We were friends and trusted each other as brothers and loved each other as brothers," Mercieca told The Associated Press in Rome. Asked if their association was sexual, the priest replied: "It wasn't."

Among the activities described by Mercieca in the newspaper were massaging the boy in the nude, skinny-dipping together at a secluded lake in Lake Worth, Fla., and being nude in the same room on overnight trips while he was a priest and Foley was a parishioner.......

'06 Oct 20 Experts: Priest in denial about behavior

Experts on sex abuse say the comments of a Roman Catholic priest who acknowledged being naked with Mark Foley when the former congressman was young fit a pattern of distorted thinking that they've seen over and over among offenders...... The priest told the Sarasota (Fla.) Herald-Tribune that he and Foley "loved each other like brothers" and that although he taught Foley "some wrong things" related to sex, Mercieca insisted their interactions were innocent....... "It was just fondling," he told WPTV of West Palm Beach, Fla.

From the perspective of people who have worked with abusers and their victims, that thinking is typical of a molester. Offenders, who are sexually immature, commonly view their involvement with their victims as normal and are baffled when others see things differently....... "This is the same type of rationalization that I've heard time and time again from priests who have been grooming or setting a young boy up for molestation," said the Rev. Thomas Doyle, a canon lawyer turned victim advocate.

************************* says a me comment ******************

Original post on the following link... Saysame - On Politics- denials and truth - Politics, sex, coruption

R-35 Iraqs Shiite and Sunni seek peace amongst themselves

Iraq's religious figures issue edicts

BAGHDAD, Iraq - In a bid to stop sectarian bloodshed, Shiite and Sunni religious figures met in Mecca, Islam's holiest city, and issued a series of edicts Friday forbidding violence between Iraq's two Muslim sects........ A final communique, heavy on quotations from the Quran and Hadith, was issued at the end of the two-day meeting. It contained 10 points, the majority of which were edicts forbidding kidnappings, incitement of hatred, attacks on mosques and Shiite places of worship. It also prohibited forcing members of the other sect from their homes and called for the release from detention of Iraqis not charged with specific crimes...... It also stated that differences between the two sects did not touch on the basics of the faith.

None was among the country's top clerics, but spokesman Salah Abdul-Razaq, speaking to The Astry to sociated Press from Mecca, said the fatwas were vetted and approved by Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the country's top Shiite cleric, and radical anti-U.S. Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr. Al-Sadr is not a high-ranking cleric but he runs the Mahdi Army, a militia blamed for much of the violence against Sunni Arabs.

The Mecca meeting had lowered expectations from the outset, with its organizers maintaining that they did not seek a truce in Iraq, where a Sunni insurgency continues to target U.S. and Iraqi forces, but only to stop sectarian killings between rival Sunnis and Shiites.

UPDATE '06 Oct 20 Long path to Iraq's sectarian split

R-34 Pope John Paul II Cartoon...just in time for Xmas ... Shows him close to children and families...

Vatican issues cartoon version of John Paul's life

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - No one expects it to replace Alice in Wonderland or Cinderella, but the Vatican has turned to a talking pen and pigeons in a new cartoon movie to teach children about the life of the late Pope John Paul..... The film, called "John Paul II, the Friend of Humanity," was unveiled at a news conference on Tuesday and its producers hope it will be a big hit for the coming Christmas season.........

"The idea was to present the human side of John Paul as the best way to bring him close to children and families," said J.L. Lopez-Guardia, a Spanish animation artist who goes by the professional name Cavin Cooper.......

****************************** says a me comment **************************

"Shows hinm being close to children and families.... I'd say so with all the sex scandals he was covering up.... NEVER happened in real life... so they have to make a movie about what they want the public to believe is the truth... I think it's only fitting that it's a Cartoon. :)

Saysame JR

R-33 Bush Politics... back in Religion

Bush aides 'mocked evangelicals' A new book by a former US official says President Bush's top political advisers privately ridiculed evangelical leaders, while publicly embracing them.....

The Republican party is concerned the allegations may harm its standing in next month's mid-term elections......'Alarm bells ringing' With just weeks to go before what promised to be highly competitive congressional elections, Republicans can ill afford to lose the support of their evangelical Christian base.

"When [the president] talks about the Faith-Based Initiative, this is one of these things where he believes years and years down the road... this is going to be one of the signal accomplishments - harnessing the power of faith in dealing with some of the most intractable problems our society faces." ...... But ... for the moment it is a short-term goal of keeping a Republican majority in congress that seems most at threat by these revelations.

R-32 Pope still going to Muslim Turkey Nov.28 - Dec 1

Pope to visit Turkey despite row The Vatican has confirmed that Pope Benedict XVI will travel to Turkey in November, his first visit to a predominantly Muslim country...... The Pontiff will visit Ankara, Izmir, Istanbul and ancient Ephesus during the trip, which will begin on 28 November and run until 1 December,

The trip has been overshadowed by a row over remarks he made about Islam..... Muslims were angered when the Pope quoted a 14th Century Christian emperor who said the Prophet Mohammed had brought only "evil and inhuman" things.




Other Links:
Pope remarks reveal harder stance

Muslims debate Pope's speech reaction

R-31 Scotland's independence... a re-play of Ireland's turmoil?

Cardinal happy to see UK break-up

The head of the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland has given his backing to independence north of the Border......"There is currently some frustration among the Scots about the say they have over what happens here, and that is part of what is pushing the independence movement.

"I can see this coming, perhaps not in the next few years, but before too long."

As the leader of a Scottish church, which is itself independent from England, he admitted it was difficult to argue for ecclesiastical but not political independence.

**************************** Says a me comments *******************************

The commitments made by the head of the Catholic Church in Scotland, will only activate Scottish Protestants that will feel that the Catholics (in politics) are trying to take over home rule and that they (the Protestants) will have no, or limited say... Aye... The same Orange and Green shite as in Ireland... just in a different pot now... Scotland...

Not only will he tick of the Scottish Protestants but also both Catholics and Protestants in the UK.... who don't want to see Scotland have independence..
Saysame JR

R-30 India and Hinduism....a country and a religion in turoil...

It's now time to E-X-P-A-N-D this topic to include another religion, Hindism and Indian social structure and of its internal as well as its external issues with it's neighbours and the world... I got the followiing links with a brief web search. I haven't read or researched them all, but I remember them being in the news.

WARNING: Some scenes are brutal
and shocking
Indian Terrorism Genoside of Muslims, Sikhs Christians and neighbour Kaskmir

Genocide of Muslims in India



**************************** Indian (Hindu) Caste System **********************

Hindus caste system

CASTE PROBLEM IN INDIA

Indian Caste System (Pictures)

India's Outcast Widows Have New Havens 04/05

Discrimination against India's lowest Hindu castes is technically illegal. But try telling that to the 160 million Untouchables, who face violent reprisals if they forget their place

India's "Untouchables" Face Violence, Discrimination 2003

India's 'untouchables' gain political might 1995

UPDATE: '06 Oct 17 India and Kasmir Hindu against Muslim

R-29 and Christianity forced on Hindus......... Where is the Love?

Low-caste Hindus convert en masse NAGPUR, India (Reuters) - Thousands of low-caste Hindus converted to Buddhism and Christianity on Saturday in protest against new laws in several Indian states that make such changes of religion difficult.......

Several states governed by the ruling Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) have introduced or strengthened laws to stop what it says are forced conversions, mainly by Christian missionaries.......Under the new laws anyone planning to leave the Hindu fold, the country's majority faith, must obtain certificates from officials and affidavits from courts, stating they were converting out of free will and not by inducements.... A hardline Hindu leader said the conversions were "forced".

"You are no more a Hindu. Say you will not worship any Hindu god or goddess. Say I will never go to a temple," a Buddhist monk asked the crowd to repeat with him.

Hindus form 80 percent of secular India's population, Muslims more than 13 percent and Christians less than 3 percent. Religious minorities such as Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains and Parsis make up the rest.

************************ Says a me comment ******************************

Christians and Buddhist are playing both "politics" and "the righteous savior" at the same time in converting the Hindu poor and oppressed. It's interesting that they can't see their own religiouos and political oppression in their own house and back yard.. yet are quick to see it in their neighbors....

The question now is..... how is converting to Buddhism or Christianity going to change the social life of these poor people? Does conversion come with a house and a car and a good Christian or Buddhist job? ... I think not.....

What has really happened is, that these conversions have in fact, created a class of poor and oppressed Christians and Buddhists..living in India... And like I said earlier...are now in "their back yard".. but of course, they don't see it that way or even care about it....

All that these "religious do-gooders" care about is the superficial show of doing their religious good deed, their "act" KEYWORD "act" of kindness and mercy for their fellow man, by converting him or her to the TRUE faith....Ahh? but which on is that.... Buddhist or Christian?

Saysame JR

UPDATES:
'06 Oct 15Anger over Gujarat religion law
'06 Oct 15Low-caste Hindus adopt new faith

R-28 Fear and uncertainty lead to Muslim religious revival

More Muslims than ever observing Ramadan JERUSALEM - The boom of a cannon and the wail of a muezzin signaled the end of the day's fast and thousands of worshippers at one of Islam's holiest shrines tucked into their dinner...... The holy month of Ramadan is under way, and from Morocco to Indonesia and the growing Muslim communities of the West, around one-fifth of humanity is on a daily dawn-to-dusk fast, honoring the revelation of the Quran to the Prophet Muhammad.

Islamic scholars say more Muslims than ever observe the fast — a religious revival brought on in part by globalization's assault on local cultures and the growing tensions between Islam and the West.

R-27 Religion and Politics... "trying" to mix Oil and Water

Battles over Muslim and Christian religious symbols rage LONDON (AFP) - Battles over religious symbols are raging as a Christian woman took on British Airways over her cross necklace and a Muslim teaching assistant defended her stance on wearing the veil.

The debate has amplified in the week since cabinet minister Jack Straw appealed to Muslim women to remove their veils to improve face-to-face communication and prevent separate cultures from taking root in Britain.

R-26 Muslim Scholars give Pope benifit of the Doubt

Muslim scholars accept pope's statement AMMAN, Jordan - Dozens of Muslim scholars and chief muftis from numerous countries have accepted Pope Benedict XVI's statement of regret for his remarks on Islam and violence, the editor of a Muslim journal said Friday......

The scholars have signed an open letter that will be delivered to a
Vatican envoy in the hopes of engaging the pope in a dialogue to counter prejudice against Islam, said the Jordanian-based editor of Islamica Magazine, Sohail Nakhooda.

Nakhooda added the letter, which will be published on Islamica Magazine's Web site on Saturday, is "an attempt to engage with the papacy on theological grounds in order to tackle wide-ranging misconceptions about Islam in the Western world."

************************ Says a me Comments Below *******************************

The Muslim Scholars have given the Pope the benifit of the doubt instead of their intuition that has been saying for weeks that Pope knew full well what he was saying. In denying themselvs, (their intuition) they have given the Pope their power. The Muslin scholars optimistically think that they have something to teach the Pope and that the Pope is receptive to their teachings... WRONG... They have played into his hands and he will string them along for as long as he can. It is the Scholars false sense of pride and superiority and of righting a wrong, along with a desire to help another less enlightened, as they feel they know more than the Pope... Well they may know more about Islam, but they don't know more than the Pope when it comes to playing the power and denial game. It will be interesting to see how this plays out....

Saysame
JR

R-25 If you disagree with the Catholic Church.... you're Saint material...

Indiana Nun to be proclaimed a saint
ERRE HAUTE, Ind. - An Indiana nun once banished from her congregation by a bishop will be proclaimed a saint on Sunday, providing a model of virtuous life to America's Roman Catholics — even if they find themselves at odds with church leaders......

Blessed Mother Theodore Guerin led a group of six French nuns who arrived in Indiana on Oct. 22, 1840, to establish a community in the woods outside Terre Haute. She and Vincennes Bishop Celestin de la Hailandiere struggled over control of the fledgling order, and he dismissed Guerin from her vows, threatened her with excommunication and banished her for a time from St. Mary-of-the-Woods. She did not return until after his resignation in 1847

Pope Benedict XVI will canonize Blessed Mother Theodore Guerin as the first new U.S. saint in six years, a span marked in this country by the scandal over the sexual abuse of minors by clergy......The pontiff also will canonize a Mexican bishop and two Italians who founded religious orders.

**********************************************************************************
The "Church" is losing power and the Pope is trying to make friends and influence people to try to regain it. He's leaving no stone unturned as he searches for ways and means to bring back all those that were forced out of the flock or fled the good shepherd. The Pope wants all his "flock" back and he'll do it anyway he can... even if it means making saints of those that disagreed with the Church doctrine and its policies and were subsequently excommunication and banished from the Catholic Church....

His plan is to make them part of the church, and if she's a saint, then she has to be Catholic...and part of the Church and no longer separate... So by default, she, and all those that follow her are returned to the flock... And... because the good Sister is dead.... how can she disagree with the Pope...

HEY! That makes me a SAINT too... it's just that the Pope and all the rest of the good ole Catholics don't know it yet..... Kind of funny when you think of it... LOL.... I'm laughing.... but at the same time I'm not... as I want nothing to do with the Church or any organized religion for that matter...

BUT there's more to this.... What is the Pope not saying beside the obvious?
He's not saying that
1) The church was wrong to excommunicate the nun in the first place.
2) That the bishop that excommunicated the nun was wrong.
3) That the Church was flawed in choosing the bishop.
4) That the Pope made a mistake in making him a bishop.
5) That the Church and the Pope make mistakes.

Of course none of this is said as the Pope and the Church consider themselves infallible and can do no wrong.. or at least... can't admit that they do wrong... as that would be a sign of weakness and a loss of power and control.. This is a good example of how DENIAL and unlovingness work... pretending they are the opposite of what they really are by doing a "good deed."

Saysame JR

UPDATES: '06 Oct 15 Pope Benedict proclaims 4 new saints

R-24 "Birds of a Feather....."

Pope holds meeting with Dalai Lama VATICAN CITY - Pope Benedict XVI met privately Friday with the Dalai Lama, the spiritual leader of Tibet, but the Vatican released no details of the low-key visit that was not even listed on the pontiff's official calendar...... The Vatican confirmed "a private courtesy visit on religious topics," but declined to issue further information because of the unofficial nature of the audience.

The Vatican has maintained a low profile on past visits by the Dalai Lama, including his last trip in 2003 to meet with John Paul II, to avoid a further chill in its icy relations with China.

The Dalai Lama wants autonomy for Tibet, which China has occupied since 1951. He led about 80,000 Tibetans into exile in 1959, and heads a government-in-exile in Dharamsala, India.

China's government bars Catholics from having contact with the Vatican and allows worship only in government-monitored churches. Millions remain loyal to the pope and worship in secret, but priests and member of their congregations frequently are detained and harassed.
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Birds of a Feather.... Flock together

What does the Pope and the Dalai Lama have in common? ... A common enemy... China... The Pope is trying to gain a political alley as he was doing with Israel the other day... The Pope and the Dalai Lama are the cosy "we" in this case and the Chinese government is the bad "they"....

Saysame JR

R-23 More Priests "exposed".. Now what about the Nuns?

Vatican OKs resignation of Iowa bishop
DAVENPORT, Iowa - The Vatican announced the bishop of Davenport's retirement Thursday, two days after the Roman Catholic diocese filed for bankruptcy amid dozens of lawsuits alleging priest sex abuse.......Since 2004, the Diocese of Davenport has paid more than $10.5 million to resolve dozens of claims filed against priests, including a $9 million settlement reached with 37 victims. The lawsuits accused 11 priests of sexually assaulting children since the 1950s and blamed church leaders for covering it up.

The Diocese of Davenport includes 85 parishes and more than 102,000 members..... The cost of the Catholic sex abuse cases nationwide has risen to about $1.5 billion since 1950, according to figures compiled from various studies by the U.S.Conference of Catholic Bishops.

********************************************************************************
I have to add a comment here as there is also another area of abuse within the Catholic Church... and that is with the Nuns.... While I know that some of them were abused by the priests, I also know of the children, including myself, that were abused by the nuns. Maybe not sexually, but that was there also, but in the mental, emotional and physical cruelty they inflicted on innocent children, just to get them to "conform" to the Churchs and their rules. It's time that they are also exposed for what they are.... including Sister Thereasa.

"And the thruth shall set you free"

Saysame, JR

PS: Violence against children widely accepted: U.N. study

R-22 Religion - a state of mind -Spirituality - a state of being.

Religion is a state of mind, while Spirituality is a state of being.

Hi everyone,

To understand the significance of that statement you need to ask yourself a question. What would you think or believe if you were not "taught" your religion and what love is or is not? To do that, you need to wipe out; erase your mind of all the things that you have been told by your religion or by other religions, and then ponder who and what you really are and what love is. Once your beliefs, your (state of mind) are gone, you are left with your "I am" presence, your spiritual essence and state of being. This state of being is totally opposite from your state of mind as it is "felt" and is without definition, limitation, rules or conditions.

All religions have definitions, rules, limits, controls and conditions to function and operate and are therefore conditional love. When you no longer buy into these beliefs, you are free and empowered. If you're a Christian, are you limited and controlled by the beliefs of a Buddhist or Taoist? Of course not! You might not even know what they are so you are "free" of their "control" because it's not what you have learned and been made to accept as real and the truth for you. It's not a part of your state of mind.

Children are not born with their religious beliefs, they are taught them and it depends in what country and nationality as to what these religious beliefs might be. The same child, born to Muslim parents, but then adopted by Christians, would most likely be brought up to be a Christian and to have Christian values because that would be what the child would be taught. Religion is not who or what you are, but by its mind control, defines what you believe you are and what love and truth is.

The older you get, the deeper you slide into the quicksand of your beliefs that you accept as truths. The same old record and program is played over and over again, deepening what you believe is your faith, but in reality is only false beliefs and judgments. Now you are so entrenched and confused that you fight to hold onto the old beliefs even if they are dragging you to your death.

How can you ever find the unconditional love and truth you seek when all you've ever known is love with conditions, which is what you've been taught experiencing only fleeting moments of unconditional love before you are snapped back by your denials? Again, it's a state of mind, your beliefs, that cause you fear what you do not know. As long as you accept your beliefs as truth, nothing will change. For things to change, you need to be open to challenge your beliefs, not defend them. If you believe that your religion and beliefs are unconditional love and truth, they will withstand any challenge. If they don't, then you need to ask yourself why are you are justifying and defending them? I leave you with this food for thought.

Saysame,
JR

R-21 Pope says he condemns use of religion for hate.... Yet Religious leaders spread Hatred....

Pope condemns use of religion for hate
VATICAN CITY -
Pope Benedict XVI met Thursday with representatives of a Jewish group and said that religion should never be used to justify hatred and violence......The comments came a month after Benedict's speech at a German university sparked anger in the Muslim world when he quoted a medieval text that characterized some of the Prophet Muhammad's teachings as "evil and inhuman" and called Islam a religion spread by the sword......The aim of such dialogue, he said earlier in the speech, is "to build relationships not just of tolerance but of authentic respect."

Abraham Foxman, national director of the ADL, said his group supports Benedict's desire for honest interfaith dialogue, particularly when it comes to relations with Muslims....."If we really feel our faith is the only one that is right, how can we still have dialogue? The answer is that we must believe we have a truth, not the truth. As long as we believe that we can respect other truths," Foxman told The Associated Press in a telephone interview after the meeting. "This is the dialogue we need to have, both Jews and Christians, with the Muslims."

************************ Says a me Comments ****************************************
Defination: tol·er·ance (tol'?r-?ns)
n.
1) The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others.
2) Leeway for variation from a standard.
3) The permissible deviation from a specified value of a structural dimension, often expressed as a percent.
4) The capacity to endure hardship or pain.

The Popes comment on tolerance is used to confuse, befuddle, deny and cover up what is really not accepted or tolerated. If one already had these qualities that they profess they have....... then why must they make it a conscious effort to practice them... they should be as natural as breathing... Saying you have tolerance and respect doesn't mean that you have... it just means that you want the other person to believe that you have these qualities... The real agenda behind the lie is that you want them to accept your lies and denials as truth... Because if they accept them, then they give up their power, because they know you're a liar, but since they give you the benefit of the doubt, they also give up their their truth, their power...

Foxman's comment, "If we really feel our faith is the only one that is right, how can we still have dialogue?" is also a load of crap... Think about it... If what he was saying was the truth.... then what he's actually saying is that reason he is open to having a dialogue is because he believes that HIS faith is NOT right.... but he twists it around to make it sound like he is open, when in fact... he isn't... Exploring anothers religions beliefs and accepting them as his truth, is NOT part of his hidden agenda

Also note the comment by Foxman, "This is the dialogue we need to have, both Jews and Christians, with the Muslims." It might not be obvious to you... but to me, there is a subtle power play at work... The KEYWORD that leaves no doubt about his intent is the word "both"...refering to "Jew and Christians"....vs "the Muslims"...

AND the Pope says he condems the use of religion for hate!!!!! Give me a break!!! He uses religion to spread hate!!!.

And.. what's also interesting is that to these people that are twisting the truth, are also actually telling the truth, or rather a part truth... They're not saying that it's "in" love... they're saying that it's "in the name of" love. It's all meant to confuse, because if you're confused.. you're also easily controlled and manipulated... and kept in the dark.... ignorant....

It's all word games... and a sham... but to the ignorant, who don't know the difference between "sheep shit" and "chip dip"... they eat this crap up....and not only do they say it's "good"... but... then they also pass it on to get others to eat it... in the name of love.... KEYWORDS... "in the name of"... not "in" love... but "in the name of" love... which really isn't love... it's just using the words to get others to think that it is something that it is not...

Other examples of WORD games; in the name of, in the style of, in the image of, in the likeness of, the same as, similar, like, looks like, sounds like, tastes like, smells like, feels like, etc. They are not the original, but copies, imitations, clones.. Tastes like Coke... but it's Pepsi.... "Looks and feels like leather... but....it's not leather."

Saysame JR

R-20 Pope seeks sheep....lost almost 40 years...

Pope to ease old Latin Mass restrictions
VATICAN CITY -
Pope Benedict XVI has decided to loosen restrictions on use of the old Latin Mass, a
Vatican official said Wednesday, a major concession to ultraconservatives who split with the Vatican to protest reforms..... The decision is part of Benedict's efforts to woo back Catholics who joined a rebel archbishop in protest over the changes.
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I guess it's never to late for the Vatican to change its mind.... even if it takes some 40 years... If nothing else, it takes the attention of the bad press the Popes been getting recently....

Saysame JR